SOLUTIONS
AWARENESS– HOW DOES MARTY BRAGG DO IT?
In this first in a series of interviews with Toronto arts
leaders, we asked Martin Bragg, Executive Producer of CanStage,
how he goes about getting his message across to governments.
His answers were candid and, we think, encouraging.
Question
Increasingly, artists and their organizations are trying
to persuade our elected officials, at all three levels of
government, that the arts are important to society for all
kinds of reasons. You’ve given a lot of thought and
effort to this kind of advocacy. What do you do? Why do
you do it? What do you think the result has been?
Bragg
[Laughter] What do I do?
Question
In that area ... maybe start there ... what do you do to
help persuade the elected that the arts are as important
as potholes and garbage?
Bragg
Before I do the what, I’d rather do the
why. I actually think it is the more important
reason. This came to me a number of years ago. It was really
kind of around when the Toronto Symphony was having a number
of its significant problems. The perception that I was getting
was that the arts are just losers ... that it’s just
grant after grant after grant after grant. And I’d
been in some city council meeting and seeing some councillor
... and it was just a like a derogatory tone. It was just
like, “You flaky artist. If we’re not giving
you a grant, then we’re having to give you a bailout.”
It struck me completely the wrong way. It was really at
that time that I determined that I really had to decide
that it wasn’t somebody else’s job to do it.
It was my job.... It’s horrible [work] in a way. But,
I just determined that somebody has to start doing this
stuff.
I spend just as much time when I am talking to people at
the federal, provincial or municipal level—talking
about the arts—as I do about CanStage because I think
it is important for them to understand that the arts are
important. Every single time I talk to them, and I say this
specifically, and I said this to the [new] Minister [of
Canadian Heritage]: Don’t use the word grant.
If you have the opportunity at the cabinet table ... use
the word investment. I am not going to sit here
and talk about multipliers, but we do talk about the quality
of life.... Major studies have been done ... of the major
US cities where mayors and city councils have used the arts
and have used theatres and cultural institutions to actually
regenerate certain areas of their city. There is a huge
power that ends up just coming back in future. The why
really for me is trying to use the word investment
and stop using the word grant.
Question
Okay.
Bragg
For me it is a personal thing and I wish more people would
do more of it. To me, it should always be positive and never
negative. I went up against Pat Bradley and Tim Jones a
couple of years ago about the whole report card issue. I
will never forget how one politician was berating me ...
just screaming at me because he got a B minus or a B plus
or something ... and just saying “What the fuck am
I doing this for? You’ve got no bigger supporter in
the arts.” In a way this kind of negative reporting
can backfire on us.... For me it is always positive. Here
is the return you get on your investment. What you are getting
is ... You’re getting a healthy city ... You’re
getting fantastic artists... We do it for far less than
anyone else does ... all that kind of stuff.
Question
What is it that takes you away from the other busy elements
in your life and puts you into advocacy mode?
Bragg
I budget my time and I budget a certain amount of our money
to be spent on advocacy responsibilities. It could be the
hosting we do at the Bluma or the Berkeley Street for the
three levels of government. I am organizing another one
right now in Ottawa. Pelagie is actually there
at the National Arts Centre. The NAC has never done this
before. I did it first on Larry’s Party—actually
invited the MPs in. I paid for a few drinks. How many of
those MPs had ever come to the National Arts Centre before?”
Some people don’t get it. But for me it was budgeted.
It was actually sitting down and taking the responsibility
to say I have to budget to do this – my time and my
money.
Question
And what do you think you get out of it?
Bragg
For me, I get awareness. Whatever one may think about Sheila
Copps, my experience within the Department of Canadian Heritage
is that I did make a difference at the bureaucratic level
there. Because their focus was – everyone’s
focus on the bureaucratic level - was not on the not-for-profit
sector. I made some progress within the politicians because
it was definitely not on their agenda whatsoever. It was
all the ‘sexy’ stuff. I had a statistic ...
I talked about the amount of attendance at the average Canadian
not-for-profit theatre versus an almost top-of-the-line
Canadian feature film. Here’s what it cost to do it.
Here’s the number of people who have had that cultural
experience versus the film. And they were blown away.
So for me, it’s been making people a little more
aware that the sector actually exists. At the provincial
level, I was able to make very little headway, frankly,
with the conservative government. I am making some great
headway now... the Liberal government announced for example
the other day that we got another $160,000 in SARS relief
money. That wasn’t lobbying so much as it was just
hammering away on that grant application four different
times. It was really us taking the lead.
We phoned Terry Smith [Deputy Minister of Culture for Ontario],
and we said if we are going to make this announcement about
a cultural event why not have it – they were going
to do it down in the restaurant down at Harbourfront –
why not have it at one of our theatres. We have got the
lights; we’ve got the microphones. We’ve got
Pelagie here. You want a little bit of spark to
it. So we had 17 cameras in here and they filmed the Minister
making her remarks. They filmed Susan [Gilmour] and Réjean
[J. Cournoyer] doing two quick numbers from Pelagie.
Great exposure for the arts. Ok ... great exposure for CanStage,
as well, no question. But it just wasn’t kind of like
another talking head. The Minister was just blown away.
She said she had no idea that this was so fantastic. And
you know what, it was like what you and I do everyday. I
think using the resources we got and maybe being a little
pushy.
Question
Would you advise smaller companies to bring elected representatives
into their midst – into the places where they do their
work?
Bragg
Absolutely. I mean I sure as hell wouldn’t bring
anybody into a rehearsal hall. But I mean I think that the
more you can get them out and get them in and make them
aware that you are there – the better it is.
Question
One more thing... there seems to be a growing belief that
the place to get to a cabinet member or a budget chief is
not in their government offices but in their constituencies.
Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you agree with that?
Bragg
If it is a federal question, you will very rarely get a
cabinet minister in their constituency. You have to be prepared
to get on a plane, get on a train, get on a bus. Drive to
Ottawa if you want to see a cabinet minister. Anybody
[else] at a federal level—definitely in their constituency
office. I have never had a problem getting a meeting with
any provincial person at all. It is just as easy for me
to go over to the Fergusson building or where ever I need
to go in Queen’s Park - in those buildings - and see
them. So I have never had that experience. Certainly, someone
like a Sam [Sarmite D.] Bulte or a Tony Ianno or any of
those people spend a significant amount of time in their
constituency offices because they are not in cabinet. My
experience with the cabinet people in Ottawa is that they
are never here.
Question
And what about their staff? Is there any benefit to going
after their staff?
Bragg
Ok. That’s interesting. I don’t make enemies
– or I try not to anyway – you want to schmooze
them as much as possible. Bill Graham, for good example,
is in essence the CanStage – Berkeley Street MP for
the area. I have only ever seen Bill in Ottawa. I just can’t
get to him here.
Question
Anything else you want to say about advocacy?
Bragg
I think, generally, we need to just change our attitudes.
Everyone will say how on earth do we have time to do that?
And the answer is that we don’t. The other answer
is if we don’t we will never get our sector up the
ladder.
Question
And I think I have heard you say that we should not just
speak about our own issues but the broader arts issues.
Bragg
Yeah, absolutely. It was really interesting at this little
night we did. This was the first meeting that was in Toronto
of the big six Ontario cultural organizations… and
the federal minister. It was all great. Richard Bradshaw
and I ended up going head to head on a number of these things.
He was great, and he talks about how the ballet is funded
and all this kind of stuff. Everybody is talking about more
money and the need for the sustainability of large organizations
and all the rest of it. And then when it got around to me,
I just talk about the sector. I just talk about how important
it is and what a difference she can make at the cabinet
table. And I said, Minister, you are our advocate –
you have voice. We have no voice at the cabinet table. Here’s
some ammunition that I think you can use– don’t
talk about grants, talk about investment, talk about returns,
talk about the taxes that come back, talk about one in seven
people in the city of Toronto earning all or a portion of
their living from arts and culture. These are strong figures.
Your government has said you want to put a priority on cities.
Well, that’s where you stand up and say that you’ve
got to make an investment. “Oh, I hadn’t even
thought. I have never made that connection,” she said.
You know. Much as I want to believe, I don’t actually
believe that in this round that the feds are going to put
a significant amount of money back in. And I think that
Martin, for me, has basically sent a message that this current
administration quite frankly is like a bunny in the headlights.
The Minister is not going to be the strongest voice for
the arts unless we help her.
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